Curse

The Great Al · Jun 13, 2007, 01:37 AM // 01:37

I admittedly play very few other characters other than my fire elem, but the reason that SF is so widely used in PvE isn't because it's overpowered, it's because none of the other elites are a viable option. Mind Burn/Blast - who wants their elite spot taken up by a spiking skill? PBAoE elites in fire magic? Not going to be used....Energy Attunement? With the non-elite attunements and GoLE, it's not necessary to take an energy skill as your elite. Hopefully eventually there will be another AoE elite spell for the fire elem.

LordDeArnise · Jun 13, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Aha! Mesmers Rule!

Evilsod · Jun 13, 2007, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by klrk

and about trade spam , i'm not a spammer but do you realise how many people turned off trade channel and forgot to turn them on ?

Did it ever dawn on you thats maybe because.... well.... they don't want to buy anything? If i want to browse in a shop i will, if i don't, i won't go in.

ThorObliterator · Jun 13, 2007, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

You make a good point, as did others, and we have made a change -- and kept it very visible -- on the Dev Update. The change concerns eligibility for the Automated Tournaments. Comments in this thread and others lead us to believe we should amend eligibility to some degree. Please give it a read and let us know what you think.

If they can still guest people, they can still pug, etc.

Better than having both rules, but I'd still rather have 8 guild tourneys without pugs than 32 guild tourneys with 'em.

Miral · Jun 13, 2007, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hikan Trilear

I thought there was going to be a preview of the PvE-Only skills in the dev update... Are we going to get a preview before they come out?

well they're coming out within the next couple days right?

agrios · Jun 13, 2007, 01:45 AM // 01:45

The mesmer buffs..I like the interrupts now go for chants and others.

The armor stacking cap is a hard blow on wars and earth-eles (specially the ones that dont own NF). I DON'T LIKE THEM. I hope devs forget this.

Strange how every farm build gets nerfed...all but mo/* 55HP.

And about SR..well...its still not good. Maybe they should read our thread.

Despozblehero · Jun 13, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Ok if NOTHING else rits need to be nerffed, seriously guys. C'mon thats a HUGE issue in a lot of PvP, especially HA. Please there are some very simple ways to deal with the ritualist skill problem that have been suggested. At least make it harder to run this ridiculously overpowered spike... please. please. please!!!!

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 13, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

You make a good point, as did others, and we have made a change -- and kept it very visible -- on the Dev Update. The change concerns eligibility for the Automated Tournaments. Comments in this thread and others lead us to believe we should amend eligibility to some degree. Please give it a read and let us know what you think.

How about make it a like 3-7 day rule. You can't partake in another AT within "" of your last AT if you are in a different guild. Keep the 8 member rule though. This way people can still jump from guild to guild and stick with one that they gel in and still be able to play in an AT without delay in the new guild. Would also prevent smurf/pugs which I thought was one of the main purposes of the AT's. The system you want to put in place will just make daily At's worse gameplay wise(pugs/smurfs/tankage), and proceed to make monthly a more noticeable JOKE. The 14 day rule was a deterrent but so are the available play times.

lennymon · Jun 13, 2007, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Archon, since this is predominantly skill balances and we know there's more stuff perhaps it'll be fixed. Don't lose hope.

So the nerf to Weapon of Warding I'm sure will balance out the dominance of Ritspike right folks? ;P

sixdartbart · Jun 13, 2007, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

You make a good point, as did others, and we have made a change -- and kept it very visible -- on the Dev Update. The change concerns eligibility for the Automated Tournaments. Comments in this thread and others lead us to believe we should amend eligibility to some degree. Please give it a read and let us know what you think.

Thats a start but with the amount of smurfs that are already around the 4 members is still too few for this to not be abused. Guests for the ATs is just plain bad.

If you really want to get more participation take a look at schedules not players.It's great that you tried to make everyone happy with the rotating start times but bottom line is when you try to please everyone you end up making it not work for anyone.

No tournament points for matches won by forfeit would decrease the amount of people who only sign up hoping for a bye and 3 points, as well as perhaps a loss of rating for teams who forfeit.
Why in Grenths name do you tell people in advance who they will face? In it's current state that leads to guilds only getting in the matches against the guilds they believe than can roll and dropping as soon as the face someone better.

There are several things in the current system begging for the same type of abuse as you have experienced in past tournaments and the guestway is just adding to an already abusable system.
A few small changes could make the GvG side of ATs work but you guys seem to be looking under the couch for the keys laying on the table.

Evilsod · Jun 13, 2007, 01:52 AM // 01:52

I really doubt that. Barrage has been bugged with Glyphs for ages, thats a fix, yet Keen Arrow is still ignored. Maybe if Gaile got her head out the clouds she might read it and actually pick up on the fact KEEN ARROW IS BUGGED!

klrk · Jun 13, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53

tell the truth
don't scold me
how many people will actually play ats anyway ???

and surely the sr buff will be a total failure

Miral · Jun 13, 2007, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by klrk

and why they improved wells than others skills , not much of people uses wells

THAT is why they improved wells. The point of these updates is to increase the viability of underused skills while decreasing the power of current cookie-cutter gimmick builds. I think wells are mostly meant for PvE, but they are also a good melee defense in PvP once you get one enemy killed... they're kind of the necromancer version of traps, in a way, and they're not all offensive. Well of Blood and Well of Power have been vastly underestimated by most people, and now cost less energy...

ThorObliterator · Jun 13, 2007, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by klrk

tell the truth
don't scold me
how many people will actually play ats anyway ???

<----------------------

Kook~NBK~ · Jun 13, 2007, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Gotta like the Mesmer buffs. Too bad the "Power xxxxx" skill buffs only apply to Nightfall,as far as PvE goes. But someone needed to be able to interrupt chants, I guess. LOL

Criminally Sane · Jun 13, 2007, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by klrk

the necromancer soul reaping buff still sux
if i'm an mm and keep spamming blood of master and Animate Bone Fiend ( with bloodstained + half recharge staff )
and i'm using a radiant armor , that's will make me no en gain in 15 secs (which is stupid)
yea good job in keeping me no en in 15 secs

Anyone else having issues understanding what he's trying to say there? Why are you spamming the most expensive minions and BotM anyway?

Quote:

and why they improved wells than others skills , not much of people uses wells
who'll so stupid standing inside a well to keep him degen or strip ?

Err, like every single mob in PvE? "Who uses wells" is precisely why they were buffed. Also, I'd like to think my allies are wise enough to stand in beneficial wells. Maybe that's just me. Sure, they won't see much use in PvP. But then, there are plenty of skills you'll never probably use in PvE either, that see plenty of use in PvP. Like Icy Shackles.

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where's my ranger's buff ?

See Cripshot.

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where's my sunspears skills ?

If you'd read, you'd know they're coming in the update.

Quote:

and about trade spam , i'm not a spammer but do you realise how many people turned off trade channel and forgot to turn them on ?

Err... Most people with common sense would turn on the Trade channel while looking to buy or sell something imo. Then again, this is the GW populace we're talking about. So I dunno.

Chthon · Jun 13, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

=Dev Update]

...

General

We added a cap of +25 to the armor buff when stacking skills. A single skill can still bring the bonus over +25, but multiple skills with smaller bonuses will not do so. Armor bonuses from shields, weapons, insignias and inscriptions are not affected and still stack.

BAD. I think it's safe to say that no one at a-net has read my rant about limiting collateral damage, because this is a perfect example of failure in that regard. If the problem is a synergy between two skills, then you fix one of those two skills. This breaks a whole bunch of other stuff that was not in any way abusive. High-end PvE tank builds? Dead. Just about every PvE warrior farming build? Dead. Earth ele tanks in PvE? Dead.

Even if you insist on doing things the wrong way and fixing a 2-skill problem with a global nerf, there's still ways to control the collateral damage: Limit the stacking cap to armor coming from shouts, or even just armor coming from skills that effect allies. (There's a whole bunch of self-target-only armor skills that are just getting victimized here. At the very least you could try not to break all of those.)

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Expose Defenses: increased recharge time to 15 seconds.

good.

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Recall: now ends if the target moves out of compass range.

Good.

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Sharpen Daggers: Fixed a bug that caused players using Sharpen Daggers to suffer from Bleeding when an attack skill is used against them.

Nice. Too bad the skill is still nerfed out of usefulness in the one build where it saw a lot of play: PvE crit/barrage.

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Arcane Conundrum: now affects adjacent foes.

Nice but... that's it?!? That's the great PvE buff for mesmers?

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Conjure Nightmare: increased duration to 2..17 seconds.
Conjure Phantasm: increased duration to 2..17 seconds.

Ow. These skills were already annoying as hell. I didn't think it was possible to make those stone summit heretics more obnoxious, but here it is.

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Fast Casting: each rank now decreases Signet activation time by 3%.

Contrary to some other posters, I'm going to predict that this change has almost no real impact on the way people play the game.

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Imagined Burden: increased duration to 10..30 seconds.

Another obnoxious skill buffed to be even more annoying.

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Shockwave: decreased recharge time to 15 seconds.

Interesting.

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Stoneflesh Aura: decreased duration to 5..15 seconds

Ouch. It's a painful kick in the PvE farming build, but I don't see this change lessening its power to annoy (but never actual endanger) opponents in PvP.

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Although we are keeping an eye on the powerful AoE damage of Searing Flames, we haven't done anything to it

Good. The other ele elites need to come up to it's level, not the other way around.

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Soul Reaping: Energy gain now triggers 3 times every 15 seconds (if you are already at maximum Energy when something dies, it does not count toward this limit). You now gain full Energy when a Spirit you control dies; you gain no Energy when other Spirits die.

I'm very dubious about this change. First and foremost, the devs are just dead wrong on the need for a cap at all. Second, this looks like another poor choice among capped implementations. The overflow control looks good on paper, but I suspect that it's not going to work out in practice because being a couple points short of full energy is so much more common than being at full energy. Gaining 1 or 2 energy at the cost of not being able to gain 10 or 12 later is still a pretty major kick in the balls. (Barring the best solution of abandoning the foolish cap idea altogether,) The solution would be to measure one's soul reaping allowance in terms of points of energy instead of hits of soul reaping. I've been plugging a better capped alternative that resembles the 3-in-15 timer, only without any of the problems except those inherent in the nature of the cap itself. Sadly, it seems that a-net has not been listening.

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Signet of Sorrow: fixed a bug that prevented this Signet from recharging properly when near an exploited corpse.

I'm curious as to what this bug actually was. Was it not recharging instantly when the only nearby corpse was an exploited one, or was it not recharging instantly whenever there was a nearby exploited corpse? I always thought the nearby mechanic with this skill was very screwy.

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Spiteful Spirit: increased Energy cost to 15.

I'm ambiguous about this change. Since SR is still capped at craptastic levels of return, this is just another out-and-out nerf to a class that doesn't need any more of them.
The only justification I can think of for doing this is to prevent it from being too good when used on a necro secondary.
So it's "nerf and hurt necro primaries" or "don't nerf and leave the door open for abuse by necro secondaries." What a bad choice. I feel this is just one more sign that capping SR is a bad idea because it creates a ripple effect of intractable problems elsewhere.

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Well of Blood: decreased casting time to 1 second.
Well of Darkness: decreased casting time to 1 second.
Well of Power: decreased Energy cost to 5, decreased casting time to 1 second.
Well of Silence: decreased Energy cost to 10, decreased casting time to 1 second.
Well of Suffering: decreased Energy cost to 10, decreased casting time to 1 second.
Well of Weariness: decreased Energy cost to 5.

Nice, but I still don't think they'll make it onto people's skillbars. They're still non-starters in PvP because there's just not enough corpses to make them worth a skill slot. They're mildly appealing in PvE, but minion users can't use them because they need that space on their skill bar for e-management thanks to SR being nerfed into the ground, and it's a big no-no for non-minion users to exploit corpses if the team has a minion user. (I say this as someone who frequently included wells in my various minion-using builds, and ended up forced to drop them from just about every build to make room for e-management after the SR nerf.)

Quote:

We've also changed the way Soul Reaping works with Spirits. You now gain full Energy when a Spirit you control dies, but you gain no Energy when other Spirits die. We hope this will dissuade Necromancers from being the super Spirit Energy engines that they are in some game types, and restore balance

Good. The spirit spam gimmick deserved to die. It's just a shame that a-net had to totally fudge up SR in every other "game type" to fix it. Oh wait, they didn't need to; just fixing spirits alone would have been enough...

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Animate Bone Fiend: Energy cost NOT reduced to 15.

Why the heck not? If SR gains are doomed to stay in the toilet, the entire necro skillset needs to be readjusted, not just just a few token skills. Bone fiend is the most commonly desired starting point. Maintaining an army with 6 or 7 25e fiends (mixed with cheaper melee minions) is just too expensive on the reduced energy budget of nerfed SR.

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Barrage: no longer removes Glyphs.

Huh?

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Crippling Shot: decreased Energy cost to 10

OK.

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Spawning Power: each rank now adds 2% to weapon spell duration.
Weapon of Warding: Decreased duration to 3..8 seconds.

It's nice, but the multiplier seems awfully small. Most of the weapon spells either have such short durations this effect is only worth a second or two or end themselves long before their duration is up anyway.

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we will begin keeping records of the worst offenders, and those who spam All Chat with trade messages may have their accounts suspended.

excellent.

--------------------------

All in all, as I've said before, if SR isn't fixed properly, I really could care less how good the rest of the updates are. I'm looking at this purported "fix" and I'm not feeling very hopeful that it's the sort of improvement I've been waiting for these past 2 months.

Miral · Jun 13, 2007, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

Gotta like the Mesmer buffs. Too bad the "Power xxxxx" skill buffs only apply to Nightfall,as far as PvE goes. But someone needed to be able to interrupt chants, I guess. LOL

couldn't rangers and warriors and assassins already interupt them? O.O and even mesmers with cry of frustration...

Evilsod · Jun 13, 2007, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Criminally Sane

See Cripshot.

See Grenths/Harriers Grasp. I will not use it again until it costs 5e, then it can actually compare with a ~8s crippling Called Shot.

And thats really not the buff ANYONE is refering to.

pork soldier · Jun 13, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

See Grenths/Harriers Grasp. I will not use it again until it costs 5e, then it can actually compare with a ~8s crippling Called Shot.

And thats really not the buff ANYONE is refering to.

With expertise cripshot will cost you ~5e...